[solved] PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
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Offline gregorylock

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[solved] PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« on: May 09, 2020, 04:01:34 PM »
PCLinux Mate Edition - I've been using USB thumb drives which are formated to Fat32 to transfer files.  Today I decided to plug in my EXT4 formated external hard drive.  I use this drive as a backup for everything.  It has 2 other drives exactly like it that act as a backup for it as well.  I've been able to read and write to these drives with Linux Mint, or any other Ubuntu flavor.  As I plugged it in the PCLinux system tells me that I don't have permission to access any of the files.  In order to get into the drive I had to login to it as administrator.  Then I had to copy my files over as an administrator.  That means all the files and directors that I copied over I do not have permission to access until I go through them the change all the permissions over to me.  And it's a lot of files!  What on earth is their problem?!!!!!  USB Thumb drives ok.  USB external hard drives not ok?  What?!!!!!!  I can't go through an entire backup drive and change permissions just so that PCLinux will work with it.  Maybe it's time for me to give it a swift kick in the butt off my test system.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 07:54:17 AM by Spatry »

Offline gregorylock

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2020, 05:04:27 PM »

Offline gregorylock

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2020, 05:25:38 PM »
I'm going to try MX Linux 19.1 and see if it gives me permission problems or not.

Offline CwF

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2020, 07:11:34 PM »
 What on earth is their problem?!!!!!
...it's all systems. Specifically the file systems. EXT4 has extended attributes to keep track of these things. That's why having a fat32 partition somewhere is a good way to strip them, it doesn't keep track!

Just pay attention to the order in which you do things, to many examples to explain, basically the last move should be by the user. WTH is 'administrator'? If root, root moves the files into user space but not the final destination, then the user moves them. The order rearranges the permissions for you. The extra step is exactly that.

Offline gregorylock

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2020, 08:43:43 PM »
...it's all systems. Specifically the file systems. EXT4 has extended attributes to keep track of these things. That's why having a fat32 partition somewhere is a good way to strip them, it doesn't keep track!

Just pay attention to the order in which you do things, to many examples to explain, basically the last move should be by the user. WTH is 'administrator'? If root, root moves the files into user space but not the final destination, then the user moves them. The order rearranges the permissions for you. The extra step is exactly that.

Here is how the problem is explained to me.
https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,152517.msg1305475.html#msg1305475

They told what my problem is but they did not tell me how to fix it.  I did some google searching around.  I didn't find any easy fix for this.

My UID and GID is set to 500/500
I need my UID and GID to be set to 1000/1000

Offline gregorylock

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2020, 09:15:51 PM »
I followed the instructions here and that seemed to solve my problem:
https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,136237.msg1161109.html#msg1161109

Offline CwF

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2020, 11:43:34 PM »
Sure, there's more than one angle!

user 500, strange, the administrator?

All users should be 1000+ in the order of creation, you need to manual sync them for multiple users to make it easy, so 1003 is always Bob...

I do it the easy way. If needed for a foreign disk, or common backup on something with extended attributes; I use a root thunar. Drop the files in a directory the user has rights in, then as I said the extra step of then moving them again with a user thunar (whatever fm). In it's final destination it inherits the current user as owner. This method is truly annoying.

Or, create a new group and make the backup owned by this group. Then make any user you'd like to access that data a member of that group.

Or, like I said, keep a non-ext4 partition for backup. Kinda funny.

Offline gregorylock

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 09:11:19 AM »
If your using the Terminal the Administrator is called root.  If your in the GUI the root is called the Administrator.  I don't know why.

Old-Polack The PCLinux Forum Administrator seems to be a good guy.  He's knowledgeable and eager to help.  I didn't know that He was writing me instructions, during that time, I was busy changing my reply and searching around. Then finally I found His instructions for someone else.  One frustrating Issue I ran into with PCLinux, is google search.  Google searching almost never brings me up information.  I must go directly to the PCLinux forums and do my search there.

In hopes of picking as much information as I can...  I listen to a lot of different Linux Tutorial videos.   Never in 5 years, have I heard about UID and GID.  Let alone that they need to match up with with your external hard drives!  Seems to me that it should be something taught to new users, and it should be an option in all the installers.

Offline CwF

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Re: PCLINUX - Permissions RANT!
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 12:24:45 PM »
Google searching almost never brings me up information. ....Never in 5 years, have I heard about UID and GID.
That's part of the problem! I've expressed before to limit this 'info exposure' and make sure it's current. Old info leads to many wild goose chases.

Anymore google (or any SE) is my LAST resort. Man pages and other published help is better, and maybe on your system already! Much of the time I find a how-to before I read the concerning documentation I go on a unfruitful tangent.

Anyway, the user info and extended attributes in linux are really intended to be 'local' and not 'global' I use the term 'foreign' disc for your backup because that's what it is, and the user info does not relate to the system its mounted on though the local system will translate user id to the local users, and as a result will LIE! I mentioned user 1003, well, move his data to that other computer that also has a user 1003 and now all that data is owned by Sue and not Bob. You may even find files with 100x as the owner and no translation to a user name. So mount Bob's disc on a machine with no user 1003, it will show only 1003 and not 'Bob'.

The common group method does work. This common group does not need to be a 'user', just a group that owns the data. Make your users members of that group. If your backup disc is owned by the 'backup' group, then each new system you create, add it's user (1000) to the 'backup' group.

Also you could consider not using any file based backups. Archives (zip, et al) can package with and without user info. Full disk images are convenient.

Overall it's a poor setup and susceptible to mixing itself up, so I ignore the specifics, since it's BS. Just make sure to use a distro with some functional root and you can always get around the 'obfuscation' and realize it's NOT security.