Will you ever try BSD again?
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Offline glsmaxx

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2015, 08:45:06 PM »
There are several BSDs designed for desktop use.. I have one in VirtualBox as we speak. It's called GhostBSD it is , honestly as easy as installing a linux distro. There are others PCBSD, Dragonfly. etc Building a FreeBSD install is easy. There are a file you have to put 3-4 lines in that are like 3-4 words lines. hald_enable="YES", etc.
pkg is the pkg manager and the Ports already installed in /etc/ports are as simple as finding what you want cd into the dir and then do a make install.
How hard can that be? If I can do it anyone can. I like freeBSD the best but I was amazed at the ease of install with the ghostBSD. It was as easy as Ubuntu or Mint. IF folks can't install these they just don't want to.
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Offline farevildee

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Re: Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2015, 02:33:25 AM »
Hello
FreeBSD is not Linux and requires the use of the command as opposed to many distros such OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, etc. I have tried OpenBSD and FreeBSD and these operating system are more complicated and unreliable than Linux. Everybody has their favorite distribution but this bias can influence the new users. If you are wondering, FreeBSD is the only BSD operating system designed for desktop use.
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actually pcbsd isnt really that badand it isalso a desktop distro based off of free bsd ive used that and i actually like it but like they say to each his own right lol
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Offline Ben

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2016, 04:54:22 AM »
The BSDs are picking up more steam every day, the past year has been pretty interesting.  DragonFly has caught up with Linux to the point where they're only around one major release behind with Intel graphics and HAMMER is a great mature file system.  The main knock on it is the smaller community and lack of a user friendly derivative.  The real issue is that all three of the major desktop BSDs (DragonFly BSD, FreeBSD and OpenBSD) have strengths and weakness when it comes to hardware and file systems, while only FreeBSD has user friendly versions (PC-BSD and GhostBSD).  The biggest thing holding them back now after hardware support is a lack of Steam and GOG support for those who care about gaming.

Here's a quick run down:

DragonFly BSD - HAMMER is a great next gen file system, the best for Intel graphics.  No NVIDIA driver, but decent AMD support.

FreeBSD - ZFS is a great next gen file system, it  has the best overall hardware support and the same NVIDIA driver as Linux.  It's the only BSD to use if you need NVIDIA support.  It lags behind on AMD and Intel graphics, though.  It also has the user friendly GhostBSD and PC-BSD derivatives.

OpenBSD - Has the best AMD graphics support, but lacks a modern file system and has the least amount of software due to their focus on security.

NetBSD is really only good for ancient hardware, but it's great for that.

Offline glsmaxx

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2016, 08:24:08 AM »
I still have GhostBSD on a VM and use it quite a bit. I have never had any issue with it or FreeBSD myself. I actually have it on 2 computers using VBox.
There is good documentation for adding a DE to FreeBSD and youtube videos also. If I can install it and make it work I know others can.
My hardware is older and maybe that helps. Don't know. I do know it just works on my machines.
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Offline JayVii

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2016, 12:06:16 PM »
Recently installed Slackware again (pumped for the upcoming 14.2 release). Been on Voidlinux for months before that (still am, on my netbook for well over a year now).
Both distro's do have slim similarities with some of the BSD's and my natural curiosity pushes me towards BSD every day. SO I have a 100GB spare partition on my mainrig left, that I will throw FreeBSD on (playing around with PC-BSD on VM before that).

I may ultimately jump into BSD with my mainrig, as (serious) gaming kinda lost its appeal and I still have my miniPC/Server with Debian up and running, which is connected to my TV (Kodi & Netflix) and has my printer connected to it. So i'm good on that front.

Offline Ben

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Re: Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2016, 01:25:24 PM »
Recently installed Slackware again (pumped for the upcoming 14.2 release). Been on Voidlinux for months before that (still am, on my netbook for well over a year now).
Both distro's do have slim similarities with some of the BSD's and my natural curiosity pushes me towards BSD every day. SO I have a 100GB spare partition on my mainrig left, that I will throw FreeBSD on (playing around with PC-BSD on VM before that).
I don't want to put too much on your plate Jay, but there is another Linux distro contender for BSD/UNIX-like.  The FSF finally announced (and made available for testing) the GNU OS, which is called GuixSD.  The SD stands for system distribution, since Guix is also a package manager.



Quote
There is no shortage of GNU/Linux distributions and package managers, but GNU Guix and GuixSD distinguish themselves in several important ways. As a package manager, Guix offers uncommon features such as transactional upgrades and rollbacks -- users can run package upgrades, possibly unattended, confident that they can roll back to the previous state should the upgrade trigger bugs.
GuixSD, the Guix System Distribution, takes that to the level of the complete operating system: instead of modifying configuration files and other parts of the system state in a possibly irreversible fashion, GuixSD sysadmins provide a declaration of what they want the system to be like, and then instantiate it. The declaration specifies details ranging from locale and timezone settings, mounted file systems, and system services and their configuration. It can be instantiated on the "bare metal" or in virtual machines or containers, which simplifies testing.
Last but not least, Guix and GuixSD provide a unified set of programming interfaces, making the whole system highly customizable. The package recipes and build tools themselves are essentially a set of libraries of GNU Guile, the host language. Core parts of the system, from initialization code to system service management, are similarly available as libraries.
More details in the full fundraising announcement.

The two issues it has right now are lack of packages (if you like GTK or don't mind compiling you'll be fine) and an installer.  The install right now is about halfway between Arch and Gentoo, meaning not for beginners.  There is a barebones install guide.  I have a simplified install guide about halfway done I'm going to post. And before anyone brings up systemd, it uses GNU's very own dmd.

Offline JayVii

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2016, 04:45:05 AM »
I don't want to put too much on your plate Jay, but there is another Linux distro contender for BSD/UNIX-like.  The FSF finally announced (and made available for testing) the GNU OS, which is called GuixSD.  The SD stands for system distribution, since Guix is also a package manager.

I read about that a while back and it looked really interesting. Thing is, that I needed specific packages back then, so this was a no-go. I somehow forgot about it, afterwards. However, I may pick it up now as secondary OS :)
I'm compiling Qemu at this very moment and will report back, as soon as I tried it.



The two issues it has right now are lack of packages (if you like GTK or don't mind compiling you'll be fine) and an installer.  The install right now is about halfway between Arch and Gentoo, meaning not for beginners.  There is a barebones install guide.  I have a simplified install guide about halfway done I'm going to post. And before anyone brings up systemd, it uses GNU's very own dmd.
I've never done Gentoo, eventhough I was always eager to try it at least once... However, I did Archlinux once and a few manual installs of voidlinux (without installer, but with chroot, in order to set up an encrypted system [LVM/LUKS]).
Since using Voidlinux & Slackware, compiling usually is a minor problem :)


Anyway, I'll try GuixSD and PC-BSD. If both go well, I will install either GuixSD or FreeBSD on my spare-partition.
Thanks for the reminder, Ben

Offline fishmanluvslinux

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Re: Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2016, 01:20:04 PM »
I would be more interested in trying Debian GNU/kFreeBSD and might give it a try. Although "This is a release in progress. It has been released with Debian 6.0 (Squeeze) as a technology preview and the first non-Linux port." http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/

Doesn't look like if has a live DVD. http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/kfreebsd-amd64/unrar/download

Would like to see you do a review of Debian GNU/kFreeBSD.

Sorry for the late response. I have had a lot on my plate as of late. I watched the video and am going to look into this distro. Ok, I tried to find the image to download and all I get is this message "NOT FOUND" the file is no longer available. Sorry but I tried.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 01:28:30 PM by fishmanluvslinux »
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Offline Ben

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2016, 03:01:01 PM »
I have to say, Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is probably the worst BSD to use for a desktop right now.  DragonFly BSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD are all production ready OSes.  GNU/kFreeBSD is still a pretty experimental port of the GNU userland to the FreeBSD kernel, and it is way behind FreeBSD itself.  It's a fun project, but I think the fact that the HURD is moving and the GNU OS itself is here with GuixSD has killed most interest in it.  I might review it, but the judgment would be something like "It's a fun project to play around with, but there is no compelling reason to use it as opposed to FreeBSD itself."

Offline lcRONOS

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2016, 05:07:25 PM »
I may have to give GuixSD a try as well.  I'm likely to wait for the Hurd to be supported by it but it sounds like an interesting experience.  I've been keeping up on developments in the Hurd a little, it'll be cool when it finishes.  I'd love to help with the project when I finish up with school, if I understand the language well enough.  Honestly I'd be tempted to try it on my laptop if it weren't for the lack of sound and sata support, as well as the fact that I need a proprietary driver for my wireless connection.  Thanks for sharing on that.
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Offline Ben

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2016, 02:45:26 AM »
I want to explain one thing about the Hurd that is misunderstood, lcCRONOS.  It is getting pretty close to being an interesting alternative to DSL as a 32 bit old hardware distro.  The reason is that DSL used the old Debian Woody kernel that worked with old hardware, but the Hurd is a modern (updated) microkernel that still supports older hardware. One of the reasons DSL was a better option than NetBSD is because it was built on Debian and had access to old Debian binaries + gui tools.

Okay, what happened to DSL?  Partly, there was nowhere else to go since the old Debian binaries were going to start expiring and compiling doesn't make sense on old 32 bit hardware.  The other issue is that it used too much boutique software and took a lot to maintain because it relied on older versions of libraries.  Debian GNU/Hurd gives you the GUI tools of Debian + most Debian packages (which you could build an ultra lightweight distro out of) while working with older hardware that you needed the unsupported Debian Woody kernel for.

GuixSD is a long, long way from benefitting from the Hurd.  GuixSD is a modern, cutting edge OS.  There are a lot of theoretical advantages to a microkernel over the monolithic Linux kernel, but they are just that - theoretical.  The Hurd is still a long, long way from being production ready if it ever will be. It doesn't offer 64 bit, no Btrfs + XFS, memory leak issues need fixing  to name a few problems.  If you have an interest in checking out GuixSD with the Hurd on a modern 64 bit system I wouldn't hold your breath, but it is a cool OS as it is now with the Linux kernel.  Debian GNU/Hurd tweaked as an interesting option for old 32 bit hardware isn't too far off on the horizon, though.

I noticed one thing you said that is no longer true.  There is already sata support and sound support is working (although not stable) in the nightly builds, Phoronix just published an article on the current state of the project.
Quote
Samuel Thibault presented Saturday at FOSDEM 2016 on the state of GNU Hurd, similar to talk from FOSDEM 2015 as linked above. Progress made to Hurd in the past year includes experimental sound work using the Rump kernel embedded in a library and then directly linked from the multimedia program like MPlayer. USB support for GNU Hurd is being pursued in a similar manner.
 
Other recent work on GNU Hurd includes initial work on porting the GNU Guix package management system, fixed native fakeroot, SCM_CREDS support, various optimizations, and a new rpcscan tool.
 
Thibault's current state of GNU Hurd says that 64-bit support has been started, i686 support is in good shape, the DDE Linux 2.6.32 driver layer is working for networking support, IDE and Xorg still work with Hurd, there is an AHCI driver for SATA, Xen PV DomU support is available, and there is the new experimental sound support with the userland Rump.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNU-Hurd-FOSDEM-2016-Update

USB support is the last major hurdle for it as a 32 bit OS.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 05:33:45 AM by Ben »

Offline lcRONOS

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2016, 06:54:05 AM »
That makes a lot of sense actually.  I have been tempted to eventually go out and buy just a cheap 32 bit laptop that has components supported by the Hurd, definitely would be a fun experiment.  I just need to finish college first so I have money lol.
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Offline Linux Lounge

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Re: Will you ever try BSD again?
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2020, 10:14:12 AM »
As soon as BSD gets better Bluetooth support I'm making the switch, BSD is amazing and the BSD port repository is easily the best collection of packages I've ever seen