Is Theming Evil?
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Author Topic: Is Theming Evil?  (Read 999 times)

Offline Vintalorian

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Is Theming Evil?
« on: September 12, 2019, 02:06:28 PM »
Hey people, I just wanted to gauge your opinions on something. Gardiner Bryant (The Linux Gamer) on YouTube has suggested that "theming" GNOME is bad because it is essentially hacking the css script that helps make up the desktop environment, and it could break stuff. I do have personal experience with this (see my rant from a while back about GNOME removing transparencies from its default theme), and I can understand where he is coming from somewhat. My problem with his stance on the issue is that I think it's incredibly stupid that GNOME doesn't offer the ability to theme by default, even though almost every other desktop environment does, and we know that Linux people like to theme. The ONLY option that we have to customize our GNOME desktop is to theme/tweak with the hacks we have. How do you guys feel about this? Is this a problem for you? Let me know.

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Offline Spatry

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2019, 12:32:27 AM »
Most of us came to Linux because of the many customizing options other operating system cannot or will not provide. I remember a time when Gnome was VERY EASY to customize to the end user's liking... now their goal is to "dumb it down" and force people to use it their way. All things being FOSS, you can fork the code and make your own at least, but I would not consider THAT to be evil. The Gnome developers have their reasons for doing things the way they want and if you do not like it, you can opt to use something else if you are unable to change the code.
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Offline farevildee

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2019, 03:09:39 PM »
one of the many reasons i hate using gnome 3 it has its good points but linux users do like to make it there's.
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Offline Crimson

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2019, 01:34:16 AM »
I had a whole speech ready for this but since I forgot most of it I'll just say I don't mind the lack of native themes for GNOME 3. I find that once you start modding how GNOME looks and runs, performance tends to start taking a hit.

I got really close to adopting KDE Plasma because of this, but then things began getting too cluttered because I can't stop modifying things. Eventually I got to the point that I just want something nice, simple, clean, and intuitive and GNOME has always been my go to Desktop, so I went back to GNOME.

I used to hate that about GNOME, but like I said, I tend to mod too much and end up hurting performance. To sum, I'm happy with the way it is, no it's not evil, it simply becomes problematic for people like me.
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Offline Vintalorian

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Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2019, 11:32:57 AM »
Most of us came to Linux because of the many customizing options other operating system cannot or will not provide. I remember a time when Gnome was VERY EASY to customize to the end user's liking... now their goal is to "dumb it down" and force people to use it their way. All things being FOSS, you can fork the code and make your own at least, but I would not consider THAT to be evil. The Gnome developers have their reasons for doing things the way they want and if you do not like it, you can opt to use something else if you are unable to change the code.

This is the weird thing about this to me: GNOME people seem to be getting upset over people "theming" GNOME. This makes no sense. Like you said, Linux is supposed to be about options, so I wouldn't ever expect the kind of negativity toward "theming" GNOME that I have seen recently. I mean what do they think about System76? Pop!_OS is beautiful, and I've never seen their "theming" break GNOME. Or what about Ubuntu? They were on top for years, and they're "theming" the living CRAP out of GNOME 3, INCLUDING using tweaks. The GNOME folks recently had a meeting to try to implement some basic color pallets that app developers can use to allow for some customization within apps, so that is a move in the right direction, but I still see the lack of theming as an issue. If theming breaks your DE, then why did you code it so poorly? Or maybe I'm completely missing the mark. Who knows.
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Offline Spatry

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 09:09:28 AM »
Maybe the GNOME devs are EVIL! I am assuming that most of them work for IBM-hat and maybe they have some SJW agendas on the table....
Did I open a can or worms by saying that? MAYBE.... This is what happens when I have CAFFEINE DEPRIVATION!.
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Offline Vintalorian

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Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 02:14:50 PM »
Maybe the GNOME devs are EVIL! I am assuming that most of them work for IBM-hat and maybe they have some SJW agendas on the table....
Did I open a can or worms by saying that? MAYBE.... This is what happens when I have CAFFEINE DEPRIVATION!.

CONFIRMED. THEMING = THE PATRIARCHY. *gasp* I bet the KDE team voted for TRUMP! CANCEL THEMMMMM!!!
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Offline Ironclaw

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Re: Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2019, 07:31:38 AM »
CONFIRMED. THEMING = THE PATRIARCHY. *gasp* I bet the KDE team voted for TRUMP! CANCEL THEMMMMM!!!

That just makes my opinion more favorable of KDE.
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Offline CwF

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 10:33:50 AM »
That just makes my opinion more favorable of KDE.
Me too, maybe I should take another look at the KDE pig!

Actually I think the theming issue is in the transition from traditional resolutions and newer HiDPI and XHDPI, etc. The scaling and other issues don't lend themselves to having universal answers. We've already made such a jump, not many original vga things from decades back scale well. Now, another similar jump. So every hard coded scaling is subject to breakage. It's not like other older system didn't have these issues.

Offline Vintalorian

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2019, 09:58:43 AM »
That just makes my opinion more favorable of KDE.

Shhhhhhhhh *whispering* Me too, but don't tell anybody, I wouldn't want to trigger some kind of uproar! ;)
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Offline Teddy

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Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2019, 01:59:42 AM »
Maybe the GNOME devs are EVIL! I am assuming that most of them work for IBM-hat and maybe they have some SJW agendas on the table....
Did I open a can or worms by saying that? MAYBE.... This is what happens when I have CAFFEINE DEPRIVATION!.

I can very much agree with this! GNOME has been on a death spiral for nearly as long as when I started Linux in 2011. I believe the first distro (or one of the earliest adopters) that incorporated GNOME 3 by default was Fedora 15. I tried living with GNOME 3 for a month last year in Fedora as a matter of fact and my unfavorable opinion still hasn't changed. Too simplistic and 'dumbed down' for my taste. Even when I was using it, I always had a nagging suspicion that it uses more resources than it should at idle or during light tasks. Even KDE runs *barely* adequately on a 1GB of RAM if you really had to, and that desktop is filled with customization ability and stuff.  No wonder why Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce and Budgie desktops exist, LOL!
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Offline gregorylock

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 06:40:08 PM »
I don' think theming is evil.  Evil is a strong word for something that simply introduces some bugs.  All software has bugs in it.  It's just the nature of the beast.

I can't seem to pull myself away from xfce.  It's got enough customizing to keep me busy.  That is if I wanted to stay busy with that....  Most of the time I find something I like and leave it that way.  As far as Gnome 3 is concerned, from what I've seen, I like the theming just the way it is.  Of course I would choose dark over the light themes.

When it came to customizing, I often wished xfce could be a little more like mate. One time I was messing around mate and found the color wheel.  It allowed me to make anything, any color I wanted.  I wanted to show off what I was doing with Linux to a woman at work.    I went with purple and pink.  She said she liked my combination and asked me if she should be worried about me because I choose those colors.  lol

Offline Ironclaw

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 10:01:05 PM »
Yeah, but theming does not introduce bugs.  It simply exposes the bugs that were already there.  Especially in gnome where there is no such thing as a theme, it's simply a CSS.
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Offline gregorylock

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Re: Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2019, 10:27:21 PM »
Yeah, but theming does not introduce bugs.  It simply exposes the bugs that were already there.  Especially in gnome where there is no such thing as a theme, it's simply a CSS.

What do you call it when a theme is hard to read or it doesn't cover all the necessary icons? BTW why does anyone make a theme that is hard to read?

Offline Ironclaw

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Re: Is Theming Evil?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2019, 11:08:10 PM »
I'd call it someone doing a bad job.  Like I said though, bad themes just expose the problems that already existed.
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