Anybody agree or disagree with Joe Collins on his Linux points in this video?
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Author Topic: Anybody agree or disagree with Joe Collins on his Linux points in this video?  (Read 780 times)

Offline pip5528

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Just thought I would share this video with you all and get your opinion. Most of it seemed like pretty solid information to me, though a few parts made me mad at times, like when he talked about MATE's name being more or less butchered by the developers and AMD graphics supposedly being really bad or weird on older computers running Linux when traditionally AMD graphics support has generally been better under Linux at least for a long time. I am also starting to agree with TUXDigital's points on Joe himself. What's your take on this, gang?
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Offline at54tl

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In my opinion, I think Joe should make videos  on Linux that are  straightforward and turn off the comments on YT. It can be time consuming  going to through every comment ,plus e-mails, forum post, social media posts and so on.  So what I am trying say is perhaps a single system that manages all viewer comments as we have on here in Cup of Linux would work better for EezeLinux.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 09:51:53 AM by at54tl »
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Offline Spatry

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Makes sense to me on most points, every presenter has their point of view and they base their discussions on personal experience. I have said similar things in the past on my shows. I have had excellent experience with AMD, again, Joe is basing his speech on HIS experience, not mine.
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Offline Kalthrix

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There are quite a few points that I agreed with in his video and some that I didn't. He brought up the issued with negative feedback in the Linux community and I'll agree that this is a very real thing. More on some sites or platforms than others, but it is still there. I also agree that Linux isn't a drop-in replacement for Windows and shouldn't be treated like one. If you're willing to adapt and find alternatives to software that you may be used to from Windows, you will do well on Linux. One thing that I didn't necessarily agree on though, is what he said in terms of those that can't do without certain Windows software. They could very easily run this in a virtual machine. It doesn't necessarily mean that you should abandon hope of using Linux, just that you have to put in a little bit of extra effort to get everything going.

I also agree with what he wrote concerning dual-booting Windows/Linux. It's not something that I would recommend to anyone that is new with Linux because there are a lot of variables and potential things that could go wrong. If the person is not willing to troubleshoot in-fighting between the two systems, then it is better to choose one over the other. Windows will wreck GRUB at times. It's unfortunately how Microsoft has coded it to essentially restore the Windows bootloader, however in a sense also makes sense in case something may have maliciously changed it. I'll agree that it is also hard to troubleshoot something like this over a forum post or an email because there is a lot of information that is needed including the make/model of the computer in question as well as potentially the BIOS version in case a recent upgrade/flash swapped settings around (typically doesn't happen).

I agree mostly with what Joe stated in terms of the terminal being needed on most modern Linux distributions aimed at new users. It's not necessarily needed to get the majority of things done, however sometimes can be much more efficient to fix something in or run a quick command to get information pertaining to the system rather than digging through the GUI to find the same info. It's definitely not archaic as other OS's such as Windows still use Command Prompt and Powershell for anything administrative for similar reasons. Sometimes, it is easier to run it as an administrator and run a command vs digging through the GUI to find the tool and do the same thing. ;)

Joe made a point about running an antivirus on Linux that I don't necessarily agree with. This goes back to when people were claiming that macOS was immune to viruses, which is completely false. Linux isn't immune either, although there are a lot fewer viruses that have been developed for it and as long as you aren't out doing something that you shouldn't be online, you should be fairly safe without one. However, if you feel safer running one just in case you happen to run across one of those "rare cases", it doesn't hurt to be safe. Make sure you do you research on the one that you would like to use to make sure that the client itself isn't susceptible to any recent malware that was released on Linux. For instance, on another post Sophos antivirus was mentioned as a good choice.

For the most part, I agree with most of what Joe stated for sources of hostility towards Linux. There are some software developers out there that may have a very negative stance with Linux as it "threatens" their livelihood as they develop for one of the proprietary platforms. Joe mentioned antivirus companies, however this isn't necessarily the case. If you think about it, a lot of companies that develop antivirus solutions have already adapted and have provided solutions to work on enterprise distributions of Linux such as RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), SUSE, and Oracle Linux. These solutions have been ported over by the community to Debian, Arch, etc in response. So, no I don't think that the adoption of Linux is necessarily a threat to antivirus companies, however it may be more-so for those that develop those proprietary operating systems in which the hostility is understandable. Pretty much, you just have to take what is said online with a grain of salt and do your research to formulate your own opinion.

Finally, I don't agree fully with his opinion on AMD. Honestly, I've seen issues amongst all 3. My Acer Aspire ZC700G AIO (All-in-One) has an issue with the integrated Intel graphics card running on anything based on Ubuntu 18.04 (except if running on the XFCE desktop). The mouse flickers and lags on the screen creating a trail of flashing cursors. Quite irritating. However, I happened across Peppermint OS 9 which didn't have the issue. As running on XFCE, I tried both Xubuntu and Linux Mint 19 XFCE with similar results. The cursor will still flicker slightly, but not leave trails which makes the DE way more usable. Other more bleeding edge distros such as Fedora and Manjaro didn't have this issue either on the other desktop environments, so not really sure of the cause. However, I'm sure the issue will be corrected in time. Also, to add to this I have a Lenovo Legion Y520 that is running Ubuntu 18.10 because of having hybrid Intel/AMD RX 560 graphics and both run fine.

So, this is one of those things that go against what he said and I'll agree with Spatry in his comment above. This was Joe's opinion based on his experience and not my own as I've never really had an issue with AMD on Linux --except for the slight hiccup in terms of the proprietary driver not working above a certain version of X.org, however that seemed to have been correctly rather quickly and the open-source driver actually isn't too bad. :)
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Offline fraterchaos

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My take on it was that you have to pay attention when he says "for newcomers" or "if you are a noob" or "if you are just coming over to Linux"

He repeats this over and over and over in the video, and most of his points are perfectly valid when considered from that point of view....

of course, many of the things he said do NOT apply to long term users who are familiar with Linux and who have a basic understanding of it's workings... I've set up dual boots many times, and I find it isn't THAT difficult... but it would be for a noobie. (And I know that's true because I learned it the hard way, by trying to dual boot as a noobie!)

AMD? I haven't had too much trouble, but he did specify "older machines" so maybe at some point before I transferred to Linux AMD was really bad, I don't know... the issue I had was how he said "I'll never use AMD by choice" based on his previous experience... and in his next sentence made comments about not being closed minded and being willing to experiment and learn... kind of contradicted himself there I feel. But again, this is aimed at noobs so....

All in all I didn't find anything that I was outraged by, although I would have been if he had not made it clear he was talking about newcomers to Linux for the most part... telling an old hand or experienced user not to dual boot, or whether or not to use anti-virus would be a bit over-the-top IMOHO
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Offline farevildee

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well i agree with spatry on one major thing he says in all his video is your mileage may vary its just a matter of finding the perfect fit for you and your machine your using and the perfect thing about linux is if you cant find you can make it.
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Offline pip5528

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Very excellent perspectives, you all! I especially agree with Kalthrix and Fraterchaos, as well as Spatry on their points of view.
I seem to be the only one who has an issue with Joe's MATE comment, so I will explain that further: yerba mate is generally the more widely accepted name for both the plant and the beverage than yerba mata. Heck, the Portuguese name is erva mate. He has said in the past that both yerba mata and yerba mate are acceptable names, so why would he now suddenly contradict himself by saying yerba mata is the one true name and that the MATE desktop developers are butchering the name by calling it MATE? The only "butchering" portion of it I would agree with is putting it in all caps, however, I believe it must be an acronym, similar to WINE, also named after a drink and originally an acronym for "WINE Is Not an Emulator!" Also, I have very rarely seen an accent mark on the actual plant or beverage name of yerba mate, so I believe that's correct also.


I plan to use AMD graphics for my Ryzen build, which will run either Slackware or Arch, so I'm not terribly concerned about that, especially if I use the free drivers, although the nonfree drivers are necessary for things like X-Plane 10.


I agree with most of the things Joe said, but not the ones I pointed out.

I should also note that TUXDigital once invited Joe to Cup of Linux, but after telling him the rules, he decided he didn't like the rules and didn't want to join.
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Offline Spatry

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TUXDigital once invited Joe to Cup of Linux, but after telling him the rules, he decided he didn't like the rules and didn't want to join.
It is my understanding that he did not like the fact that we require registration in order to chat on our Mumble server. Everyone who reads the rules should understand why we have those countermeasures in place and would know that having them makes sense.
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Offline pip5528

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It is my understanding that he did not like the fact that we require registration in order to chat on our Mumble server. Everyone who reads the rules should understand why we have those countermeasures in place and would know that having them makes sense.

In that case, either I am remembering the story wrong and/or interpreting it differently or he told the story differently. Joe probably thought we were tyrannical or otherwise authoritative for that, but we're really not. We're a free and open community as long as people are willing to agree to and abide by the rules. The real reason for those countermeasures is to keep the trolls away as effectively as possible. Of course, that's not to say people can't sneak their way onto the server or cause the slightest bit of trouble, but of course we can all do detective work and figure it out. Most of the time, these sorts of people are stopped way in advance before they can cause much of any trouble.
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Offline gregorylock

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I browsed quickly through some of your comments. I remember listening to that video on my mp3 player.   I really like Joe Collins and I think most of time he's right.  I give him the same grace I give everyone else.  Nobody gets everything right all of the time.  Joe is aimed at new users, and I feel like I'm somewhere in between a new user and an advance user.  For that reason I find some of his videos boring.  And yet some of his terminal videos challenging.  I hope Joe keeps doing what he does.

Offline pip5528

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I browsed quickly through some of your comments. I remember listening to that video on my mp3 player.   I really like Joe Collins and I think most of time he's right.  I give him the same grace I give everyone else.  Nobody gets everything right all of the time.  Joe is aimed at new users, and I feel like I'm somewhere in between a new user and an advance user.  For that reason I find some of his videos boring.  And yet some of his terminal videos challenging.  I hope Joe keeps doing what he does.

I'm pretty great with a terminal myself and even prefer it the majority of the time. It's so much more efficient than GUIs.
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Offline gregorylock

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I'm pretty great with a terminal myself and even prefer it the majority of the time. It's so much more efficient than GUIs.

I'm not sure that you would use the terminal for the things I do the most.  Seems to me even if you could it would be slow and clunky.  I spend most of my time in a web browser.  I use thunar for copy and pasting creating directories etc.  You can do that in the terminal but it's a lot of typing.  I use Audacity a lot.  Then I use Gimp, gnome disks, Gsmartcontrol, Gparted, xed, mousepad, leafpad, gedit.  Then there are other gui programs I use a lot less like kdenlive.  I just don't see the point in jumping into the terminal for these things.  However I do use the terminal for issuing install commands, sometimes I use it as a way of giving a program root privileges.  Of Course Htop, and whenever I need to repair something, and the instruction is written with terminal commands.  I'm not scared of the terminal I just don't have a lot of things to do in it.

Offline pip5528

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I'm not sure that you would use the terminal for the things I do the most.  Seems to me even if you could it would be slow and clunky.  I spend most of my time in a web browser.  I use thunar for copy and pasting creating directories etc.  You can do that in the terminal but it's a lot of typing.  I use Audacity a lot.  Then I use Gimp, gnome disks, Gsmartcontrol, Gparted, xed, mousepad, leafpad, gedit.  Then there are other gui programs I use a lot less like kdenlive.  I just don't see the point in jumping into the terminal for these things.  However I do use the terminal for issuing install commands, sometimes I use it as a way of giving a program root privileges.  Of Course Htop, and whenever I need to repair something, and the instruction is written with terminal commands.  I'm not scared of the terminal I just don't have a lot of things to do in it.

Yeah, but file managers in general have one major disadvantage: you can't easily get into hidden directories with them without changing a few settings first. With a terminal, however, all you have to do is CD into it. I would still agree with you that obviously GUIs are needed for things like image software. Also, I guess you could say typing is my specialty or something like that, since I am a proficient touch typist on QWERTY, and I am working on improving on my speed and accuracy on Dvorak. I can touch type on it, and it took me a month to fully memorize the layout, but it will take a while to get up to speed on computer touch typing and even surpass my QWERTY speed. I do love terminals, though.
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Offline CwF

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 I think terminals are non-competitive.
Terminals are for instructions which so far have no suitable or proficient GUI.
In the future that will be revised;
The terminal is for instructing when the computer didn't understand what you said.

Offline Spatry

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Remember kids: When opening a terminal, Linux AUTOMATICALLY assumes that you know what you are doing! Who said Linux isn't user friendly? Linux chooses it's friends LOL.

I find that having a drop-down terminal is very handy for things... While I use a GUI for most things, the terminal is useful for troubleshooting, for instance, I can run my proton scripts in a terminal and read the information if the game crashes and get clues on how to fix the problem... also quick system settings can be done in a terminal rather than paging through setting menus...
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