Want Wayland to work.
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Author Topic: Want Wayland to work.  (Read 1314 times)

Offline wombat50

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Want Wayland to work.
« on: May 23, 2019, 12:52:14 AM »
Hi all.
My desktop now gonna be used for experiments on the linux,wayland... Come one now...   :)

Anyone feel free to join in. Im going to try to post regular posts on my work, and share to the community.

Hope that this gonna be a succes.

Kindly regards.


Post Merge: May 24, 2019, 07:02:30 AM

Okay. So far my experience tell me to do some preliminary stuff, before launching a Wayland environment.

I still lack the last skills to just dive in and go for it. So i do following steps before i start wayland code up.

First i do a setup where Debian is upgraded to Buster, and installed Xfce4 and i3wm tiling window manager.

This i do for later on to install sway, and be a bit more accustomed to the almost keyboard only approach. (i3wm and sway go hand in hand).
Xfce4 for fallback and easier experiments. (And i kinda like Xfce4 desktop :) ).

Most software i use should be ready for running on wayland. Mpv, Firefox and a couple of other apps that are essential for me , are reported to work. So i hope for only a few "hick-ups".

Post Merge: May 24, 2019, 10:07:56 AM

This is a show stopper...

I got sway installed from debian experimental. Login to sway desktop seem good, but no keyboard access at all but resize... :(

Tried guides, copy i3 config to sway, tried to add keyboard input in config.
Nothing working so far. All work is doing from xfce4 desktop, need to reboot from terminal when trying to do anything from sway.

Got some function working back when tried from Fedora and Ubuntu as i recall. Weird.

Post Merge: May 28, 2019, 03:47:48 PM


Well if its my skills or something else. At the end i admit the strength of proven and log time durability with known software.

So for now im done with wayland experiments. To many guides that go nowhere and to many broken dependencies, just to many "doos" and no fun.

So I stay at xorg with xfce4 desktop for a while yet.

And my desktop hardware seem better with Fedora. (read "Fedora got newer software" ). :)

Moderators can move this topic and post to more appropriate forum if you want to.


« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 03:50:38 PM by wombat50 »

Offline CwF

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 07:55:26 PM »
From what I understand, a fresh install of 10.x buster (sid/stable) with wayland/gnome is working. And maybe even intel/intel hardware preferred?
I say it's not failure to recognize a basic xorg with something like xfce works just fine!

Offline Crimson

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2019, 12:45:46 AM »
Sounds like you're doing things the hard way. If that computer is experimental and has no sensitive information on it, just do a fresh copy of a distribution that has Wayland built in. Virtually any mainline, big-dog distro running GNOME these days has Wayland set as default.

Fedora, Ubuntu, and Manjaro to name three.
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Offline wombat50

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 02:10:37 AM »
True the easy way would be a full gnome install "maybe a core install", and the wayland experience is straight forward there. 

Yes debian is able to do wayland with gnome with either back-ports, or pre-upgrade buster and good up to date software mostly. 

What i forgot to mention is that im not that much a gnome guy, mainly because i feel gnome is heavy and bloated. Yes its possible to have a stable and functional gnome running. I do like a xfce4 desktop better and it behave more "crisp" and responsive on my typical setup.

Anyway. I did learn a thing or to experimenting and i will keep follow the development of wayland.
Then one day i think i will take another turn and see how it goes .


Offline fchaos

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Re: Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 09:55:36 PM »
True the easy way would be a full gnome install "maybe a core install", and the wayland experience is straight forward there.

Yes debian is able to do wayland with gnome with either back-ports, or pre-upgrade buster and good up to date software mostly.

What i forgot to mention is that im not that much a gnome guy, mainly because i feel gnome is heavy and bloated. Yes its possible to have a stable and functional gnome running. I do like a xfce4 desktop better and it behave more "crisp" and responsive on my typical setup.

Anyway. I did learn a thing or to experimenting and i will keep follow the development of wayland.
Then one day i think i will take another turn and see how it goes .

I'm no expert, and know little about Wayland, and haven't run a Debian based distro for years... but it sounds to me that the best method to experiment would be to try to add XFCE to a distro that has Wayland/GNOME... that way at least, you know Wayland is working from page one, right?

Offline Crimson

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Re: Re: Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 12:56:49 AM »
I'm no expert, and know little about Wayland, and haven't run a Debian based distro for years... but it sounds to me that the best method to experiment would be to try to add XFCE to a distro that has Wayland/GNOME... that way at least, you know Wayland is working from page one, right?

That's actually not a bad idea. Going that route, why not start small first by installing plain Jane Ubuntu, then install XFCE4?

Code: [Select]
sudo apt install xfce4
You might have to do some tweaking afterwards to get XFCE to play nice with Wayland, but it seems a lot easier than the alternative.

Here's a good reference and tutorial.
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Offline CwF

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 09:45:27 AM »
You guys are missing the issue here. Wayland is not some program to install along side your favorites. It is a structural change, on which XFCE does not support at this point. It's either/or. Build up a pure Wayland GNOME. from install media intended to be gnome on wayland.

This is literally the old doctor joke:
 User: Doc, it hurts when I move my arm?
 Doc Wayland: then don't move your arm.

Offline Ironclaw

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 05:58:57 PM »
Wayland is also a lot pickier about your video drivers.  I don't use it here because it doesn't work properly with the nvidia drivers.
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Offline Crimson

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 08:14:57 PM »
I thought XFCE had Wayland support by now, guess not. I guess you're out of luck. Oh well.

I don't quite understand the idea of squeezing out every drop of resources in favor of a light weight DE. If you're wanting a smooth snazzy and fast experience with Wayland, why wouldn't you use GNOME? It's certainly modular enough with all of the extensions available.

And honestly, GNOME isn't THAT much of a resource hog. I use live GNOME environments all the time for basic diagnostic purposes and it runs fine on a lot of old and new hardware. Even on PC's more than 10 years old. IDK, it's just like my opinion man...

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Offline fchaos

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Re: Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 09:57:48 PM »
You guys are missing the issue here. Wayland is not some program to install along side your favorites. It is a structural change, on which XFCE does not support at this point. It's either/or. Build up a pure Wayland GNOME. from install media intended to be gnome on wayland.

This is literally the old doctor joke:
 User: Doc, it hurts when I move my arm?
 Doc Wayland: then don't move your arm.

I wouldn't say I was missing the point... the point seemed to be to make xfce work with Wayland.

Sure, if it's not compatible AT ALL, then you're SOL... but if you believe you CAN get it to work, it seems like it would make more sense to start from a distro that already has it up and running, then add xfce and work out the bugs and tweaks, then to try starting blank and trying to force xfce to work on Wayland when you don't even know if it's working correctly...

If it can not work, then it can not, no matter how you try to do it. So the whole post seems pointless if that's true. Why even try?

But if there is a way to do it, then it seems to me the best method would be to start from a point where wayland works and you know it works, and go from there.

Or am I just stupid?

Offline CwF

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Re: Re: Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 10:00:30 AM »
....best method would be to start from a point where wayland works and you know it works, and go from there.
 Exactly my point, you got it. Since wayland is a gnome thing at this point, why add xfce?

I have gnome bits is xfce, but gnome doesn't need xfce bits as far as I know.

Which I don't know. I'm not much of a DE surfer and prefer xfce not because of the lightweight claim but more the idea I don't really use all the features and xfce breaks down into components better. I suppose that is a lightweight feature, but it more NO feature rather than some 'efficient' feature.

Since I use X extensions in my strange VM based system, some don't really need a desktop. The right click menu and an invisible verve line get me everywhere. More minimalistic than lightweight.

For me wayland CAN'T work not because it sucks but because it's not intended to work in that way.

For an Intel laptop, wayland/gnome just might be the best way to do it.
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Offline Spatry

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2019, 12:31:44 PM »
The fragmentation in the Linux community will continue to grow because people cannot seem to "agree to disagree" on things. Developers have different views on where the software should go, rather than working together, they are splitting further and further apart. Remember the commotion Ubuntu's MIR brought into the mix when the community was creating Wayland to replace X? There has been a lot of good comments in this thread, but I am under the impression that Wayland is not 100% ready yet. I understand it will not work well with Nvidia and that can be a deal breaker for some. Having BOTH Wayland and X shipping on common distributions is adding more bloat to live media IMHO.

At the end of the day, X.org works. It works well with any desktop you desire, it is not perfect, neither is Wayland but at least with X, you have more options available to you.
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Offline wombat50

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Re: Want Wayland to work.
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2019, 03:40:48 PM »
All you guys make good points, this is a little more of my thoughts and perspective on my choice and decisions.
Yes popular distro with gnome and you are of with a pretty good wayland experience. One thing though...

Gnome got this user insult named gnome-tracker. A indexer function supposed to be a help for you. Yes if you not already had made a choice and your own setup to your files administration.

Yes i would consider the option if i had the choice to enable/disable it if i wanted to. But gnome-team decided to make it harder and harder to avoid tracker running, and its burning resources to the point of outrage when you are unlucky.  So gnome get thumb down from me.

Most other desktops, well known by regular people it is, don't support wayland. Work is in progress for several though.

Its a primer for me to all ways optimize for resource use on my rigs.
Only got access to low end hardware (Maybe a mid end thing here and there). That is the main thing that drives me that way.



Post Merge: May 31, 2019, 03:43:56 PM




Post Merge: May 31, 2019, 05:03:36 PM
Oh yes i forgot to mention. I'm back on Debian again. Non-Debian tryouts, is a frustration choice i some times do when something troubles me. Every time reminds me why i am a Debian guy, and back home i go. :)


This time xfce4 is replaced with i3 tiling windows manager. I'm not sure if i stay with i3, but it is rather speedy and lightweight so it do appeal to me. Another choice would be Openbox.

That is also a speedy and lightweight desktop, and both has been fun and rewarding to learn for me. Though i3 being last newcomer i got a lot to work with still. Time will show who will win. :)

Kindly regards Wombat50.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 05:03:36 PM by wombat50 »