Spinners versus SSD's
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Author Topic: Spinners versus SSD's  (Read 154 times)

Offline CwF

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Spinners versus SSD's
« on: April 10, 2018, 03:08:41 PM »
I'm on the fence with my storage preferences. IMHO, I've said, use a real spinning disk for repetitive writing. Use SSD's for the OS since they are so much faster..And don't worry.
We all have read and maybe been concerned with massive write durability, alignment issues, trim options, etc. I've said, don't worry since I have SSD based XP installs that beat 5 years untouched. I've read XP knows nothing about the proper maintanance of an SSD...After 5 years times a few examples, I'll stand by my "don't worry".
The last few days I got into testing some storage to expand a vm that is a tv dvr, and maybe move a cctv setup to a vm. I looked at many sub-par solutions I'd not recommend but have, looking for good enough somewhere. I'll summarize that endless adapters and emulation layers can work, I have a list of dismal results, and a few examples of hung vm's corrupting the host. All side stories.
So a new thought! During some of the test I realized there is one overriding advantage of SSD's : SILENCE.
So, who would not hesitate to use an SSD for multigig writes daily? Do we think an old spinner would outlast the SSD? Take out cost and capacity it doesn't matter, but I do wish small SSD's (<128GB) were still common. I realize terabyte size spinners are cheaper and newer ones pretty quiet, that's not the question...

Offline Spatry

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Re: Spinners versus SSD's
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 03:31:51 PM »
In this "disposable" world we live in, I sometimes have to wonder if the newer tech is REALLY better. I have read articles stating the advantages of getting better i/o from ssd and that the R/W cycles are limited, while the motor on the hdd can wear out and your cpu will tap its fingers while waiting for data.

Research is the key and I am just as dumbfounded on this subject today as when they announced the release of ssd and how much "better" they are supposed to be. My sources on the internet basically tell me that if you are going to go with ssd you are probably better off going with a brand with a great reputation, but stay away from their economy models... spend the extra money on their mid-high tier models but the highest tier products are not necessarily worth it for the extra fluff they provide. I have found my best source of information is from reading customer reviews on several retailer websites to see what actual users say about the product!

To be honest, because of the different levels of quality manufacturers are producing these devices, it is hard to get an accurate measurement of lifespan. It would be very nice if someone would put up an unbiased analysis for the edification of consumers.
"Wipe that NERVOUS expression off of your face, 3PO!" -General Leia Organa SWTLJ

Offline gregorylock

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Re: Spinners versus SSD's
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 04:05:01 PM »
I listen to a lot of Bryan Lunduke.  Paul Bibaud of Pogo Linux says SSDs are every bit as good as hard drives, and they are getting better. 

Bryan Lunduke
Published on Oct 31, 2017

In this episode of the Lunduke Show I bring on an expert from Pogo Linux (Paul Bibaud) to school me on all things SSD, M.2, NVME, & Flash Storage.  Because, clearly, I needed some schooling.

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Offline CwF

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Re: Spinners versus SSD's
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 10:57:04 AM »
Thanks for the link, another guy to add to my liferea. They focused more on the next step, the upgrade from sata SSD intstead of upgrade to. I've looked around and that seems the consensus, a modern ssd will likely outlast a modern spinner. I have a typical hangup of never throwing away something that works. Professionally recovering equipment in the field in adverse conditions doesn't match up with casually throwing things away. Spatry is right, I need to embrace the disposible culture. It used to be a chore to setup a multidisk setup, but it did help. Now we have boards with 6+ sata ports, backups are easy, so my new preference should be that, hang multiple little ssd's instead of one fast and one slow big spinner as in my prior thinking. The big backup spinner still makes sense to me but I think I'll take it out of the workflow. Since the old days of slow storage it has been an advantage to have multidisk scratch space for audio and video for example, now it doesn't seem to help much once on a SSD.
I simply have terabytes of ancient hardware, and that sickness I mentioned to allow it all to live out its useful life. "Useful" I have reevaluated! I have one optical disc I never use really but would like to use it every so often. That is an IDE DVD that is on an scsi adapter. It works great! Hang an ide hard disk on that chain and all hell breaks loose and surprisingly any real scsi drive doesn't do well either. XP doesn't complain, debians do, and I don't know why, and I think I shouldn't bother to figure it out - just move on... I used to pass the entire controller and had a multiboot VM that could dynamically power on stuff in and out of OS's on the chain without ever shutting down the VM. Something changed in vfio and that is no longer possible, with good reason, and host control kills performance, so scrap it..

In the video they mentioned ram disk. I remember when my scsi array was faster than a ram disk! How things change. About a year ago I did an experiment to create a VM with enough memory to run a live DVD image, script load virtual box, and dd in an image to it's ram of XP. MASSIVE overhead and it worked great! It just took a half hour to load up and to shutdown, but it was fun.

Offline Spatry

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Re: Spinners versus SSD's
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 01:49:13 PM »
I certainly DO NOT embrace this "disposable culture"; it is a fact of life. I would prefer the things we purchase to last, unfortunately they are deliberately designed NOT TO!

That TOATER made in the 1950 still works to this day and yet the brand spanking new Walmart toaster will break AS SOON as the 90 warranty expires! Sadly, we are powerless to do anything about it. <facepalm>
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Offline fraterchaos

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Re: Re: Spinners versus SSD's
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 03:47:32 PM »
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I certainly DO NOT embrace this "disposable culture"; it is a fact of life. I would prefer the things we purchase to last, unfortunately they are deliberately designed NOT TO!

That TOATER made in the 1950 still works to this day and yet the brand spanking new Walmart toaster will break AS SOON as the 90 warranty expires! Sadly, we are powerless to do anything about it. <facepalm>

there IS one thing we can do about it.... don't buy crap from Wally World... EVER
Science, like Nature, must also be tamed... with a view towards it's preservation. -- Rush

Offline CwF

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Re: Re: Spinners versus SSD\'s
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 05:29:39 PM »
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I certainly DO NOT embrace this "disposable culture"; it is a fact of life.

To CLARIFY! I did not mean to infer you do embrace it, but that last part, it is a fact of life you are wisely telling me that WE can't really fight it.

I would trust your toast!

Post Merge: April 15, 2018, 05:39:55 PM
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there IS one thing we can do about it.... don't buy crap from Wally World... EVER

On this one I'll say I already flipped to embrace the Wally way. I have it on good authority that up top in the ranks they really are NOT trying to screw us. A POS sku (not point of sale), is the same as a Quality Made in OHIO sku, a sku is a sku is a sku. More POS comes in because they sold out the last batch. So when wally gives a choice, choose quality. Wally is a mirror of demand and not its creator.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 05:39:55 PM by CwF »

Offline gregorylock

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Re: Spinners versus SSD's
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 08:35:00 PM »
I think it is awful that planned obsolescence exists.  But sometimes you just got to upgrade.  It depends on what you need your computer to do.  My 11 year old computers are slow for the type of audio editing I do on a regular basis.  I need to get my jobs done in around an hour or less.  I spend most of that time waiting for audacity to do it's things.  SSDs are a lot faster than those slow spinning drives.

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