Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
Welcome, Guest.

Author Topic: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?  (Read 3392 times)

Offline Wolfsong73

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« on: July 29, 2016, 09:50:57 PM »
Hi all,

So, I've done a lot of searching, on Google, on YT, etc, and I've seen a lot of videos about using WINE. The thing is, they seem to be more of a "do as I do" type of process, and I've not been able to find anything that really explains the whole WINE "ecosystem", or how the different elements work together.

I consider myself a pretty intelligent person who can figure things out, and enjoys doing so. But, when it comes to WINE (and a number of things on Linux, for that matter) it seems to be a nut I just can't crack. It looks so easy when I'm watching videos and such, but then I end up like a deer in headlights when I'm trying to install something myself.

For example, when I'm looking at tutorials, there's mention of wine bottles, prefixes, 32 or 64, winetricks, stable or development or staging, different versions, playonlinux... and so on. Many of the tutorials are presented in a way where, at least it seems, some familiarity is assumed of the viewer, so instructions are given without explanation of why a given step is being taken.

While I understand what WINE is at a 35,000 foot level, I find myself getting completely confused and discouraged when ever I attempt to get something to work, because nothing ever does - even things that are listed as "platinum" or "gold" on the WINEHQ database.

For example, I just tried to install "Disciples II: Rise of the Elves"; a game that is rated Platinum for Ubuntu on WINEHQ (I'm using Mint), with no additional steps required (or at least listed). I got it installed (had to google for a command-line trick to work around an issue with multi-disc installs). When I run it, the screen goes black, as though it's loading, and then an error box comes up saying it "could not load" the game, and it quits back to desktop. This is a game which *should* run without a hitch, again, according to WINEHQ. Yet it doesn't run at all. And this is what I deal with no matter what I try to install.

The only games I'm able to successfully run are ones that are native to Linux and installed through Steam, or the Software Center. If it's neither of those, forget it. I'm out of luck.

And as I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, or even where or how to begin finding out, it really just makes me tempted to say "forget it" and go crawling back to Windows, yet again, which I *don't* want to do.

So, I'm wondering - if such a thing doesn't already exist - if there was a way for some kind of a "WINE for Dummies" type of video or series be created? Something that starts with the basics, explains all the parts of what makes WINE work, how the different parts interact, what configuration settings to change, when and why... and so on.

Or might it be a case of "if you can't figure out WINE, then forget using Linux.. just go back to Windows"? I hope not, but... well.. I've seen, and gotten, that kind of response from other people in other places, so... it might just be "the only right answer" for me. Or, it just might be a case of it not being presented in a way that "clicks" for me.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 11:27:24 PM by Wolfsong73 »

Offline fraterchaos

  • Mandelbrot Metal Mayhem!
  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: us
  • Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
    • Skype
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 12:16:27 AM »
I definitely sympathize with your comments about not wanting to go back to windows...

Unfortunately, I don't really do any serious gaming, and about the only win game I ever tried to make work in WINE was Civilataion II Play the World (and yes, I got it to work, except some of the text was garbled)

Mostly I use WINE to run Photoshop CS2 and my Fractal program (Mandelbulb 3D) and for those, it's as simple as right click and select "Open with WIne" (actually, that's a simplification... for PHotoshop, I had to right click the installer, and "Open with Wine" go through the whole install process just like I would in windows, and then I could run the exe file with Wine... for MB3D I just extract the files and run the exe with Wine (but that's the same in windows, just extract it and run, it doesn't do any installation or write to the windows registry)

I know Spatry did a couple videos about Wine and WineBottles... didn't really get much from them because I don't need WineBottles.

One thing you will definitely want to make sure of though, you need to install not just Wine, but also Wine-mono and wine-gecko (mono is for windows .net functionality... not sure what gecko is, but yes, you NEED it)

If you do not have both those installed, try adding them and see if it helps at all.

Other than that, maybe somebody else will have more (and better) advice...
Science, like Nature, must also be tamed... with a view towards it's preservation. -- Rush

Offline Wolfsong73

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 01:24:33 AM »
Hiya, Frater,

Thanks for the feedback.

Ironically, the non-game software I would use is natively supported on Linux already lol. I already use GIMP, Blender3D and LibreOffice on Windows as it is. There's other "side apps" I use, but nothing I can't live without if they don't run on Linux (and I'm guessing there'd be a Linux/FOSS derivative of them anyway).

I do have the gecko and mono installed. WINE actually downloaded and installed those during the installation process. Aside from the hiccup with getting Linux to recognize I'd put the 2nd disc in (which,  I got around using 'wine eject', per a post I found through google), everything went perfectly smooth with the install. I expected running the game would go just as well but, nope... no dice. Again, that's been my typical experience with WINE in the past, regardless of what I've tried installing/running. I've never had a successful go with WINE, or with PlayOnLinux for that matter.

If I had more understanding of what's going on, and how the whole WINE thing works, I could probably do some troubleshooting and figure it out. Of course, that knowledge comes with time and experience which, ironically, is why I chose Disciples II. Since it's listed as Platinum on winehq, I thought it would be a good sorta "easy introduction" for me to see how WINE operates, and maybe help get me started with wrapping my head around it. Once something "clicks" with me, I'm pretty much off and running. I just need to get to that "a ha!" point with WINE, and I think maybe a kinda "for Dummies" primer tutorial could really help with that - as well as helping others.

Again, I don't *want* to get to a point where going back to Windows becomes my only sane choice. I'm over it with MS and their shenanigans, I have no intention of moving to Win10, and I'm ready to move on from that ecosystem completely. I don't even want to do a dual boot. But, I am a very avid gamer and would like to be able to get these games installed and usable, even if it requires some troubleshooting. Most of my collection is supported through WINE (again, according to WINEHQ), so I should be pretty much set to go.

Anyhow, thanks again!

Offline JayVii

  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 1759
  • Country: de
    • JayVii's Page
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 03:56:48 AM »
What you need to know about WineHQ is that its database is generated by users themselves who often don't even know themself what they are doing or who use an older winebottle which has something else installed and may influence the new install.

You can minimize the error by skipping through the *other* test-results. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login is rated gold and talks about a no-CD patch (often used by crackers that don't have a legit CD/CD-key and by WINE users, where often CD-authentification doesn't work).

If it is about getting the game to run, i recommend using PlayOnLinux, which is just a frontend for WINE, which is able to do some cool tricks:
  • easy setup of different winebottles
  • multiple wine-versions running side-by-side
  • installer-scripts for a huge load of games and applications
  • and much more (:
However, if you want to learn about how wine works, PlayOnLinux won't help you, as it hides the entire process behind a GUI. in that case, use the barebones WINE

WINEBOTTLES
What is often refered to as winebottle is actually called a wineprefix. Calling it bottle is just a nice way to illustrate it, as it's nothing else than a new wine-directory with all the wine-stuff installed in it (winecfg, mono, gecko, and all the dependencies for your application). This is especially nifty if an application requires you to run it as 32 or 64 bit, where as another application IN A DIFFERENT wineprefix requires the other. Same goes for running it in Win7 Mode or WinXP mode (you can set both of those in winecfg).
By default, your wineprefix/winebottle is ~/.wine. so when you run the command

Code: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
wine /PATH/TO/APPLICATION.exe

you are actually doing:

Code: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
WINEPREFIX=~/.wine wine /PATH/TO/APPLICATION.exe

What is funny about this is, that you can run an application in your winebottle, where the application is actually installed into a different winebottle. Say you have 2 winebottles/-prefixes: ~/.wine-A and ~/.wine-B
You can do:

Code: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-A wine ~/.wine-B/drive_c/Programs/MYCOOLAPP/start.exe
The previously mentioned winecfg is a nice tool and your bread-and-butter if you want to use wine.
it's actually a nice gui, that lets you configure a lot about your wine-prefix. most importantly the Windows-version of it (usually Win XP and Win 7 work best here in my experience) and DDL-overrides (which is another topic of its own). You can run winecfg in your prefered wineprefix by doing:

Code: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
WINEPREFIX=/PATH/TO/PREFIX winecfg


But that's not the matter here. WINEPREFIXES can be a weird subject and might take some time to wrap your head around. You learn best by doing, which is why i find your idea of installing some application to get started a very good one. again, think of WINEPREFIXES as different bottles, each containing a new windows-directory. they are all seperated from another and do their thing without influencing the other.
There is a rough but understandable explaination of wineprefixes in the Archwiki:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login



Don't get fooled. it may take some time to really get going with wine (or linux in general), but if you did the first (and hardest) part, it will be a breeze ;) It might be worth the effort for you (it definitely was for me)


Have a nice day!

« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 04:23:49 AM by JayVii »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline Wolfsong73

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: Re: Some kind of \"WINE For Dummies\" type tut
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 09:24:06 AM »
Hy Vii,

Wow, thank you for the help and explanation!

So, then the best idea, then, is to not pay too much value in what people put on the WINEHQ? Or only certain info? I ask that, because I know Spatry, and others, have suggested looking there to see what others have had to do to make a game work, when installing it yourself. Does that still apply?

To confirm if I've grasped other things you explained...

So, Bottle = Prefix = "Discrete Windows Installation/Config" (effectively). I think that makes sense, then.

For the whole bit about being able to run something in one prefix from another one, an example might be you have something installed in a prefix for 32-bit 7, but want to see if it'll run in a 64-bit 7. You can launch the program installed in the 32 bit prefix with the the 64-bit one, and WINE basically won't care that it's installed in another prefix; it'll just run it.  Is that correct? That's pretty handy, if so.

In any case, if PlayOnLinux is a good, easier way to make things run, then that's awesome. I'd like to try and learn how WINE works itself, so that I understand what's going on "behind the scenes". This way, if something should ever go awry with POL, I'll be familiar enough with it to fix it manually.

So, do you have to set up a prefix yourself, prior to installing something? Or does WINE do that for you with a "default" setup? That's something I hadn't thought about 'til just now. When I'm reading about installing stuff from disc, there's never been a step in there about creating a prefix for it, so it never occurred to me to do so. But, maybe it's assumed that the user already has one (which would go back to my first post, where I talk about many assumptions being made of the user in other vids/tutorials I've seen).

Anyway! I'll give it another go and see what happens. Thank you for the info and help!



Post Merge: July 30, 2016, 10:03:03 AM

Welp, I'm at a loss again lol.

Couldn't figure out what to do with WINE itself, so I decided to try PlayOnLinux. I tried installing the same game again (Disciples II: Rise of the Elves). Of course, because my luck, those games aren't listed on PlayOnLinux, so I had to "install unlisted game" and do it the long way.

Unfortunately, the "wine eject" trick doesn't work, and the system refused to acknowledge that the second disc was in the drive.

So, it's just wall after wall after wall for me, and my enthusiasm is running out. 4 attempts at installing a single game, and a very old one at that, and it's just failure after failure, wall after wall. Can hardly imagine the hell I'd be going through trying to get something newer running, or anything else for that matter.

Keep hearing how great gaming is on Linux... unless you want to go outside the software repositories or Steam, I guess.

Think I'll be sticking with Windows after all. MS is evil, but atleast I still have Windows 7, and my stuff works on it.

Thanks for the help anyway, folks. Sorry for wasting your time.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 10:09:10 AM by Wolfsong73 »

Offline fraterchaos

  • Mandelbrot Metal Mayhem!
  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: us
  • Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
    • Skype
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2016, 12:05:53 AM »
I noticed one thing you did not mention in reference to Jay's post...

winecfg
if you look in the directory where the wine files are stored (NOT the directories created for your game, but probably /usr/bin) you'll find a file called winecfg if you run that, you'll get a nice little "windows-like" window, where you can choose to run a wine program in a certain "version" of windows, switching can help. It might only run in WinXP or Win7 or sometimes (really old stuff) might only run under win98

Another thing you can set via this window is whether wine uses it's own DDL files, or uses actual copies of the "real" windows DLL files (you need to have them somewhere on a hard drive to use this option, it works easily if your dual booting, but you can probably copy them from a Win machine to a directory on say a a data drive on your system)

I would definitely try using this method before giving up totally.

Another option, if you don't trust windows and don't want to switch to win10, is to install win7 or XP in VirtualBox, some (but possibly not all) games might work in a virtual Windows environment.


Science, like Nature, must also be tamed... with a view towards it's preservation. -- Rush

Offline Wolfsong73

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2016, 08:57:19 AM »
Hiya, frater.

Thanks for the advice/info.

Isn't all that (which OS, which WINE version, etc) set up for you when you use POL, though? I thought the the whole idea of POL was that it will automatically set things up for the given game to work, so you don't have to do it manually? Beside that, I'd still be dealing with the OS not recognizing I have the second (third, fourth, etc) install disc in the drive.

I realize people who are already familiar with Linux are likely thinking "What's this guy's problem? This is all basic, easy stuff. It's not difficult. It's easy!".

But to me, as a novice user, it's a confusing mess. It seems anything I try to do, however seemingly easy, tends to involve super complicated, multi-faceted requirements, riddled with caveats and "if not a, then b; if not b then c, if not c then d... if not d then e,f and g..." solutions. And even after all that, there's no guarantee it's going to work well, if at all.

I'm not blaming anyone here, and I know y'all are sincerely offering help. So don't take this as a personal attack. Not intending it that way at all. I think it's just the nature of the beast. With Linux, everything beyond the most basic usage quickly becomes convoluted and confusing. Things seem to quickly devolve from "proven, consistent steps" to "hacking and tweaking and trying different tricks and work-arounds". A task that would be straight-forward, simple and consistent on another OS, rapidly gets lost in a jungle of different scenarios and increasingly confusing steps. It feels like trying to isolate and trace a single cable within a tangled mess of them.

I mean, all I want to do is install and play an older game which has a "Platinum" rating for Ubuntu on WINEHQ. Platinum, from what it says on the WINEHQ site,  is "An application can be rated as Platinum if it installs and runs flawlessly ‘out of the box’. No changes required in winecfg." But that's clearly incorrect. I can't get it working at all, and I've tried now 5 times.

I looked for the easiest, least complicated game I could find, to get an idea of how things are supposed to work... and it didn't work, at all, despite several attempts. That's incredibly discouraging.

Complicating things further, someone earlier in the thread said that you can't even rely on what's posted on WINEHQ, because people who don't know what they're talking about will post things there. Well then why the heck do so many people say "Check WINEHQ for a program's compatibility?" Why have I never heard that caveat before? This is another problem. If you can't count on the info being accurate on what is, ostensibly, THE Go-To database for Linux compatibility, then telling someone to go there is potentially bad advice.

As much as I love the idea behind Linux, and as much as I'd love to move away from Windows, I can see why it still only accounts for ~1% of the market-share, despite all of MS's shenanigans, and even with Steam and other sites making gaming more accessible putting wind in its sails. It's because, for anything beyond the absolute basics, Linux is a convoluted, overly-complicated and confusing mess to work with.

I'm honestly at a loss of what to even do at this point lol. I want to use Linux, but I don't want to deal with all this nonsense every time I want to install something which, supposedly should "just work out of the box".

I really feel like the message about "Linux has gotten easier to use" should be changed to "Linux has gotten easier to use in certain situations, and only if you already know what you're doing, and/or aren't trying to do anything beyond the absolute basics". That's a more honest depiction of it.


Anyway... sorry.. I'm done ranting lol.

Thanks again for the info/advice.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 09:06:51 AM by Wolfsong73 »

Offline fraterchaos

  • Mandelbrot Metal Mayhem!
  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: us
  • Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
    • Skype
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 10:22:01 PM »
I can't really give much comment on POL, since, as I have stated, I'm not using it.

From what I know about it, yes, it is supposed to set things up for you, and eliminate the need to do a lot of configuration manually... but that's about as much as I know about it.

I've never had that many problems with WINE. and like I said, I just installed WINE and the wine-mono and wine-gekko packages and then I just run stuff by right clicking and choosing "open with WINE windows program loader" I've seldom needed to do anything more... If I remember right, I might have had to set the winecfg for winXP when I tried to run Civilization III in WINE... but it was a long time ago now and I don't remember for certain.

Perhaps one way to get more experience and knowledge about using WINE would be to choose something that only requires one disc? At least that would eliminate the issue of disc changing during installation... Experimenting with a few other games might be the best way to learn your way around WINE and help you figure some things out.

If I could, I'd try installing the game myself and then I could advise you on how I solved it, but I don't have that game, and so I don't know how I could do that... I'd rather not try to obtain an illegal copy, especially since there's little chance a illegal one would work anyway WINE can sometimes have HUGE issues with "cracked" or "hacked" software)

Not sure what more help I can offer... maybe someone with more experience with games will chime in at some point and offer some better tips.
Science, like Nature, must also be tamed... with a view towards it's preservation. -- Rush

Offline Wolfsong73

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2016, 12:14:02 AM »
Hiya, frater,

Thanks for your additional feedback/info.

I think it's just going to be a matter of me jumping in and keeping at it 'til I can get stuff to work. It's the only way I'm going to learn. I'm just a bit frustrated when I see so many videos, articles and forum discussions of people talking about how stuff on Linux "just works!", or understates the challenges that you can and will face when using it; challenges which can be particularly discouraging for a new user who doesn't know what's going on, yet. That was the impetus of my rant in my last post; people, in their eagerness to promote Linux, are creating unrealistic expectations in people, and it can be counter-productive for Linux's growth.

I'm going to be ordering some new hardware this week (new mobo, SSD, case and fans). Once I get the system upgraded/case-swapped, I'll be starting with a fresh install of Linux. No more Windows for me. Buh-bye Micro$oft. Still not entirely sure which distro to go with yet, but it's most likely going to be a Unix derivative. Probably Mint. Just need to decide on a desktop. XFCE is nice, but I think I like Cinnamon a bit more. I'm on a fairly beefy system, so resource usage is not a concern - I'm running Windows anyway, which is notoriously resource hungry.

Anyways! Thanks again for your follow-up.

Offline steve1954

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2016, 02:02:50 PM »
As a long time gamer, started with DOOM on DOS 6.2.2, now using Windows 10 I have to say Unix based distros are not for gaming. Some of my games run on Linux but it's not easy like in Windows, don't know why people keep saying Linux is easy to use. I bought an ssd and Windows 10 for around two hundred, unplugged the other drives, installed Windows, set it up as sdb, Linux grub on sda, no problems. Windows 10 installed the latest drivers for my nVidia card, realtek sound, and all my hardware. Sound was not working on Manjaro 16.04, worked on 16.06, not working on 16.08 again. Took several hours of Google searches to find a solution, had to edit /etc/pulse/default.pa and add a line to get sound working, not easy again. Don't get the wrong idea, I love Linux and Unix, been using Unix based operating systems since 1985, enjoy the challenge of finding solutions for problems. You might enjoy using one of the Debian based distros like sparkylinux, I believe it's more stable than Ubuntu 16.04 based distros. http://sparkylinux.org/

Offline fraterchaos

  • Mandelbrot Metal Mayhem!
  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: us
  • Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
    • Skype
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2016, 12:07:13 AM »
I think, in a way, we're mixing apples and oranges here...

Linux IS easy to use, and stuff DOES just work... in Linux, with native Linux stuff (usually, and depending greatly on which distro... using a very stable distro like Debian or Debian based, you should not have ANY real issues... using an Arch-based distro, expect to have to fix things now and then)

But my point is... this all goes out the window (no pun intended) when you start talking about WINE... because your basically forcing one OS's software to work in another OS it wasn't really meant for. So you not only have possible issues from the actual program itself, but from the fact that it's being used in a way that was never intended...

One thing one always needs to keep in mind about WINE is the recursive acronym of its name... W ine I s N ot an E mulator.. WINE does not "emulate Windows on a Linux machine... it is a "compatiblity layer for Linux that allows windows software to access the DLLs and other necessary files they need to run. This is one reason I mentioned winecfg as being important... in the winecfg program window, you have the option of using either the Linux open windows DLLs or using an actual copy of REAL windows DLLs, often things like intense games will only work if you can use the REAL windows native DLLs, not the Linux version copies.

If you are looking for an easier way, try VirtuaBox or other "virtualizing"  software (VMWare, or others) because this is more along the lines of being "an emulator" you are actually running the native OS inside the other OS (for example, running windows XP or Win7 inside Linux) (or vice versa) BUT, be warned, you still won't get every single game to work... some things just don't.

On the other hand, there are a lot of free and open source Linux games, and there's always Steam...

Science, like Nature, must also be tamed... with a view towards it's preservation. -- Rush

Offline Wolfsong73

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 10:27:59 PM »
I'm not sure how you get the impression, after all I've said, that I'm somehow "confused" about the situation. My entire issue is that what using Linux and WINE are hyped as, and what using Linux and WINE is actually like are, indeed, apples and oranges. The two are not the same.

The problem is, you're talking to the wrong person. Don't talk to me about how it's "more complicated than that". I know that already - that's the basis of my discussion in this thread.

Talk to the people in your community, on YT and elsewhere, who go to great lengths extolling Linux for how easy it is to use, how easily and seamlessly one can make the switch from Windows, how you don't have to do without your favorite Windows apps/games thanks to WINE, and so on. Tell them to stop setting unrealistic expectations in people who don't know any better, while omitting any of the complications and issues users can and will run into.

Tell the people who run WINEHQ to be more strict and thorough with what goes into their database, to make sure those ratings are vetted and confirmed before being listed for others to see. If I go to their database, and a game I want to install is listed as "Platinum", and - according to them - should "just work out of the box without further configuration", it's not *my fault* that I expect it to do just that. It's not my fault when it doesn't.

For you to spin it as "the problem is me mixing apples and oranges" (you say "we", but I know you meant me - obviously you know the difference), is utterly disingenuous. You're effectively saying "Yeah, I know all those people on YT and elsewhere totally oversell and exaggerate Linux's ease of use and compatibility, but they're not the problem. The problem is that you don't know better, and listen to them".

Put the accountability where it belongs - on the people overhyping and misrepresenting Linux in the first place.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 08:02:54 AM by Wolfsong73 »

Offline fraterchaos

  • Mandelbrot Metal Mayhem!
  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 677
  • Country: us
  • Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
    • Skype
Re: Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2016, 11:28:32 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm not sure how you get the impression, after all I've said, that I'm somehow "confused" about the situation. My entire issue is that what using Linux and WINE are hyped as, and what using Linux and WINE is actually like are, indeed, apples and oranges. The two are not the same.

The problem is, you're talking to the wrong person. Don't talk to me about how it's "more complicated than that". I know that already - that's the basis of my discussion in this thread.

Talk to the people in your community, on YT and elsewhere, who go to great lengths extolling Linux for how easy it is to use, how easily and seamlessly one can make the switch from Windows, how you don't have to do without your favorite Windows apps/games thanks to WINE, and so on. Tell them to stop setting unrealistic expectations in people who don't know any better, while omitting any of the complications and issues users can and will run into.

Tell the people who run WINEHQ to be more strict and thorough with what goes into their database, to make sure those ratings are vetted and confirmed before being listed for others to see. If I go to their database, and a game I want to install is listed as "Platinum", and - according to them - should "just work out of the box without further configuration", it's not *my fault* that I expect it to do just that. It's not my fault when it doesn't.

For you to spin it as "the problem is me mixing apples and oranges" (you say "we", but I know you meant me - obviously you know the difference), is utterly disingenuous. You're effectively saying "Yeah, I know all those people on YT and elsewhere totally oversell and exaggerate Linux's ease of use and compatibility, but they're not the problem. The problem is that you don't know better, and listen to them".

Put the accountability where it belongs - on the people overhyping and misrepresenting Linux in the first place.


I did not mean it as any sort of attack on you, or any kind of attempt to point to you as being "confused"

What I meant was, Linux IS easy to set up and use, within itself. Yes, there are a lot of people who will say everything is easy, even getting the most advanced Windows games to run in WINE, and they are probably wrong.

My point was, that doing things with something like WINE is most certainly going to be more complex and possibly irritating because it's another level of complexity (or really two new levels, both the level of windows programming and the level of WINE compatibility layer programming)

It really isn't a simple as Installing WINE and then installing game (whatever) and everything works, and anyone who says it is, is probably lying to you. If you are used to using some kind of emulator for some other "crossover" (say a XBOX emulator for Windows) you might think it's the same thing, or similar, when in reality, it's not. Not saying you are at fault, I can understand your frustration, because, yes, there are a lot of people who try to make it seem like everything IS easy, and perhaps, for them, it is... Some of us (on the other hand) (myself included) have to struggle with everything just to understand it a little bit.

The important thing is not to give up just because it is difficult... nothing that is easy is worth learning anyway.
Science, like Nature, must also be tamed... with a view towards it's preservation. -- Rush

Offline Ironclaw

  • Terminal Multiplexer
  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 249
  • Country: us
Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2016, 01:42:08 AM »
It can actually be a bit more complicated than people are recognizing since you're using old install disks for a windows game.  Not that you can't get the installer to work, but quite a lot of them used various forms of copy protection that usually will not work through WINE.  In the case you have a game like that sometimes you can get a cracked executible (not the safest behavior) that doesn't have the copy protection built into it.  Because this can be such a headache I've actually bought a lot of games I already owned at GOG and Steam when I've found them on sale and that saves at least one layer of headaches.  Not always an option but it can make things significantly easier.
If you must persist, I will be forced to tar you, then gzip you and finally umount you.

Offline Kalthrix

  • Staff Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 934
  • Country: us
Re: Re: Some kind of "WINE For Dummies" type tutorial(s)?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2016, 12:32:03 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It can actually be a bit more complicated than people are recognizing since you're using old install disks for a windows game.  Not that you can't get the installer to work, but quite a lot of them used various forms of copy protection that usually will not work through WINE.  In the case you have a game like that sometimes you can get a cracked executible (not the safest behavior) that doesn't have the copy protection built into it.  Because this can be such a headache I've actually bought a lot of games I already owned at GOG and Steam when I've found them on sale and that saves at least one layer of headaches.  Not always an option but it can make things significantly easier.

Same. GOG is awesome! Was able to find quite a few of my old games through there and then Steam for anything modern. Pretty much covered between the two.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login